Podcast: The World Bank ends ban on nuclear energy funding

Saturday, 28 June 2025

 

The two men spoke at the announcement of their two organisations' agreement to collaborate to build capacity, strengthen safeguards and share technical expertise and help the World Bank "deepen its internal knowledge across areas such as energy planning, regulatory frameworks, refurbishment of existing reactors, and the deployment of new technologies like small modular reactors".

Nuclear power was approved by the World Bank Board two weeks ago "as part of a broader approach to electrification - one that prioritises accessibility, affordability, and reliability, delivered in a way that manages emissions responsibly. The goal is to help countries deliver the energy their people need, while giving them the flexibility to choose the path that best fits their development ambitions, national context, and nationally determined contributions."

World Nuclear Association Director General Sama Bilbao y León then joins host Alex Hunt to consider the importance of the change for the global industry and the goal of tripling nuclear energy capacity by 2050.

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Episode credit:  Presenter Alex Hunt. Co-produced and mixed by Pixelkisser Production

(Cover picture credit: Martin Amaldo/World Bank)

Below is an edited transcript of Ajay Banga and Rafael Mariano Grossi's comments at the launch of their agreement in Paris:

Ajay Banga:

"Thank you Rafael, for joining us during, if I may say it, a demanding time in your life, and despite all that is going on in this world. It underscores the potential of the journey that we are wanting to embark upon together. Back in 1965 around the same time the World Bank Group last financed a nuclear power project the average person in high income countries used about 38 MW hours of electricity in a year. Today, that person is using on the average more than 50 MW hours. But in Africa, that number is 4. So the gap has actually become much worse and far more challenging for the growth and development of our world in a fair way, in a way that this disparity will actually intensify.  Electricity demand in developing countries is projected to more than double by 2035. Meeting that demand will require annual investment in generation, in grids, in storage to rise from USD280 billion today annually to roughly USD630 billion. That scale is what drives our effort to connect 300 million people in Africa to electricity by 2030, with the African Development Bank. It's why we developed a very clear path forward on delivering electricity as a driver of development that our board advanced just two weeks ago. It's an approach that prioritises accessibility, affordability and reliability, delivered in a way that manages emissions in a responsible way. And the goal here is to help countries deliver the energy their people need while giving them the flexibility to choose the path that best fits their ambitions, their development ambitions, their national context, but importantly also their nationally determined contributions. 

"We believe access to electricity is a fundamental human right. It is the foundation of development. Jobs require electricity, as do health systems, education, clean water, public safety and so much more. And that level of transformation is not just about generating enough energy to turn on a light and a fan for a few hours in a day, we're talking about enough to power a decent quality of life and support job creation and entrepreneurship, and that means dependable long term base load power. 

"For the World Bank Group, it means a new way of working and recognising there is no one-size-fits-all solution. That's why we've got a comprehensive approach. We looked at where can we help to improve grids where we could help to reduce emissions and where we could help to expand supply and along the way, we're trying to clarify our approach and our ability to support geothermal gas, solar, hydro, wind, all aspects of electricity generated. 

"What is new is that for the first time in decades, the World Bank Group will begin to re-enter the nuclear energy space. It's a significant step and one that we take with care, but importantly with partnership and with purpose. Nuclear is not for every country, but where it is chosen. Where it can provide a reliable clean source of power that strengthens energy security, that supports economic growth and helps to meet long-term development goals, there we would like to partner. So we are entering nuclear power in three areas. The first one is build capacity and strengthen our ability to advise on non-proliferation safeguards on safety, on security and regulatory framework. The second one is extend the life of existing reactors in countries that already have them. You know rebuilding that fleet and expanding its life is one of the most cost efficient ways to enable this energy to be used for the right reasons and the third one is can we do something together to accelerate the potential of small modular reactors so over a period of time they can become a more viable option for more countries.

"The thing is, the World Bank group cannot do this alone, and that is why the partnership with the IAEA is critical to us. It marks a very tangible first step in our return to nuclear energy. I think it's a privilege for us to have Rafael and his team be a partner with us at every step down the road ahead. We have no intention of not having them locked with us on everything we do here. 

"They bring unmatched expertise in nuclear safety and security and safeguards we think we can help as a World Bank Group support countries where the IAEA is confident in the strength of national laws in their institutions, and their oversight. That partnership will ensure that we are building capacity and strengthening our ability to advise on non proliferation safeguards on safety, on security and regulatory frameworks and under this agreement, the idea is that the IAEA will help us build internal capacity across a wide range of topics, energy planning, project life cycle, fuel management, waste disposal and the technical infrastructure required for success. That coordinated approach will deepen our understanding of where nuclear energy can play a responsible role and give our clients access to the guidance and the support they need to pursue that path. If they choose to take it. 

"We know that challenge is immense, but I think with thanks to this partnership we can help countries deliver the energy they need to power opportunity. Today we are both talking about more things we can do together with the kind of work that the IAEA is trying to do in healthcare and food as well. And to me that just tells you you take first step do well together, build the right trust and partnership and there will be more that the World Bank Group and the IAEA will be delighted to do together. So Rafael, thank you, my friend. Thank you for inspiring US one year and one month ago. Thank you for staying consistent during that period. And thank you for your partnership."

Rafael Mariano Grossi

"Thank you, Ajay. Well, what a great day this is and like you were saying, these are not easy times for you or for us, days full of anxiety over what is happening in the Middle East sleepless nights ... but this is really an inspiration because this shows us that when we work together, when we have a good idea, when we have a determination to do something and to change things, this is possible. And I really want to pay homage to you for having believed, Ajay, that this was possible. For many, many years, a narrative was saying that this was not possible and for many, many years those friends here from private sector, the nuclear industry, the guys really doing this stuff, were hitting a wall that was saying that investing in nuclear was not something for international finance institutions, and among those the leading one, because nothing will happen without the World Bank.

"It's as simple as that in my endless rounds of conversations in many parts of the world, when I was approaching banks and regional banks and finance people, they were saying 'but you know the World Bank'...  and this is when I decided to come to Ajay and he graciously invited me to talk to the board at lunch and I can tell you the first reaction even from nuclear users was not, you know, so welcoming. They were saying it's going to be complicated, so, many years ...  and you said 'hell no'. And I'm so grateful for that because I was convinced that we had a good story to tell. And this is what we did and I think of course in terms of how international institutions work ... in one year from the very first time I talked to you and to your board and I explained what nuclear was doing and what we could do, our teams started working together meeting in Vienna in Washington, you send me your experts, I'm sending you my people. I also want to say thanks to the industry.

"You said everything that needs to be said in terms of energy. But one big problem we had, and this was the lack of finance, the fact that many, many clients in the Global South in developing countries, even in industrialised economies, need some financing support and now they know they can come, they will know they can come to the World Bank, they can talk to the World Bank. They can explain what they want to do in different areas, starting with, as we were mentioning now, life extensions, but also doing feasibility studies, looking into the safety of the whole thing and the World Bank will be able to tell that we have our friends in Vienna, the IAEA, we can look at concrete projects. See the feasibility of them and work together. So without, you know, falling into the solemnities and saying that this is a historic occasion or whatever. I think this is a very important day and I think you will agree with me at least on that one. Let me tell you that already I have had calls from some - I'm a diplomat so I will not mention which ones - regional banks. This is a good club. Thank you very much."